Would you distinguish, as you rightly say, British Muslims being very anti-homosexual, following tribal cultures from South Asia or Christians in African countries? I don’t know any Jew or Christian who doesn’t deny chapters in Leviticus.
Okay.
The people ignore that the hadith, the sayings of Muhammad are pretty strong on the matter of what you do about the gays.
So if we were to arrive at some kind of process of moving beyond that, you would have to start, wouldn’t you, by saying, well, the main the authoritative books and collections of Bkari Hadith of Muhammad are not gay liberation documents anymore than their women’s liberation documents.
We’ve got another clip from the great and powerful Douglas Muri.
Let’s take a look at this clip.
I’m tall, the traveling cl your favorite sweet colonizing white sweet corn colonizer of white colonizing sweet corn.
You’re Zionizer, ladies and gentlemen.
You can get the shirt down in the description at the travelingcloud.
com.
Let’s get right into it.
What is Islam? Oh, damn.
I keep hate.
I I’m sorry.
This keeps happening, folks.
Sorry.
What is Islam? We’ve had a lot of talk already tonight about it.
And I’ve only got 10 minutes.
I’m very unlikely to be able to give you a comprehensive definition.
If you listen to Zach, uh Muhammad, who founded Islam, was a sort of prototype of just a specially benevolent town counselor in the region of Fif.
If you listened to him, you would get the impression that it was a pure arrangement of a few minimal issues of governance and so on.
Now, that isn’t the case.
Islam is many, many things.
It’s many complex things.
It’s not easy to sum it up.
It is a religion, however, and it is possible to sum it up to some extent.
My own favorite definition is that there are in a in essence three Islams.
There is the Islam of the origins that is the texts, the Quran and the Hadith, the sayings and indeed the early lives of Muhammad.
There is the second Islam, the way in which that has been extrapolated out over the centuries in the body of law known as the Sharia.
And there is a third Islam that we often mean when we talk about Islam, which is what do Muslims believe? How do Muslims live? Now, these are very, very deep waters, but there isn’t any point in seeing deep waters unless you plunge straight in.
Zach said in his comments that we must return to Islam’s religious values.
But the problem is that Zach’s version of Islam’s religious values is going to be very different from a lot of other people’s.
And let me put this point to you at its hardest, but I think it’s necessary and it’s truthful.
Groups like ISIS have the worst possible interpretation of Islam.
It should go without saying, but they have the worst possible interpretation of Islam for Muslims and for non-Muslims.
However, it is an interpretation of the texts that they have.
It is a valid interpretation of the lessons they take from the life of Muhammad.
It is a possible interpretation of the texts and traditions they have in front of them.
I’m afraid I’m afraid, ladies and gentlemen, that Muhammad was not Buddha.
Consider the history of Islam of of Christianity, ladies and gentlemen.
The history of Christianity, goodness knows, has been bloody.
Would it have be been more bloody or less bloody if on even one occasion when one of Jesus’s disciples comes to him and says how many times should I forgive my brother seven times or 70* 7 if instead of saying forgive him endlessly which is what Jesus ends up saying he’d have said chop off his head what would have happened to the history of Christianity if even on one occasion when a woman is brought to Jesus found in adultery instead of saying he who is without sin cast the first stone said stone her.
I think we can all agree, we should all be able to agree in a place like this, the history of Christianity would have been bloodier.
So it is with Islam.
And I know that in a house like this, in this particular era, it’s necessary to pretend that some people believe in Christianity, some people believe in Islam, some people do yoga, and that there isn’t very much difference between them.
There is, ladies and gentlemen, the origins matter.
But let me tell you some facts that should interest this house about what Muslims think.
And I’m not going to go to Saudi Arabia.
I don’t need to go to Saudi Arabia.
I don’t need to go to the Gulf States.
I don’t need to go to Iran.
I’ll just use the opinions of Muslims in Britain.
So here we go.
Here’s one.
It’s generally agreed that the modern liberal state includes uh the right of sexual minorities to live to live their lives and find love as they wish.
A Gallup poll carried out here in the UK in 2009 found that zero% of British Muslims think that homosexuality is acceptable.
Zero.
An ICM poll carried out last year found that 52% of British Muslims think that homosexuality should be made illegal.
52% of British Muslims last year.
A Yuggov poll from 2015 found that uh that nationwide in Britain about 16% of the population think that homosexuality is morally wrong.
But that raised to 29% in London.
Why would that be? I leave you to ponder.
Free speech is also, I think, widely agreed certainly in Professor Borstein’s country to be an important element in liberalism.
So, let’s consider that one.
Channel 4 in 2006, notorious, another notorious right-wing conspiracy, Channel 4, um, Channel 4 in 2006 found that 78% of British Muslims thought that the publishers of the Danish cartoons should be prosecuted.
78%.
BBC poll in 2015 found that 27% of British Muslims had quote some sympathy end quote for the people who went into the offices of Charlie Abdo and killed the cartoonists, editors and journalists there.
Channel 4 poll from last year found that only 1% of UK Muslims think that publications should have the right to publish any cartoons of Muhammad.
Um, the subject of women’s come up already tonight, but I’ll just give you one figure.
Uh, poll carried out last year also by Channel 4 found that nationwide 5% of the British population agree with the phrase that wives should quote always obey their husbands.
5% across the country.
However, 39% of British Muslims agree with that uh phrase.
Give me one other quick example.
This isn’t a figure.
This is a quote from an eminent opponent of mine uh called Medi Hassan, a British Muslim journalist.
Medie Hassan on the article on the subject of anti-semitism within Britain’s Muslim communities, wrote the following in 2013.
It pains me to have to admit this, but anti-semitism isn’t just tolerated in some sections of the British commun Muslim community.
It is routine and commonplace.
Any Muslims reading this article will know what I’m referring to.
It is, he said, quote, our dirty little secret.
And you see, that is the big problem of this debate tonight.
Because if the other side tonight is right and Islam is perfectly compatible with Western liberalism, then it’s all going to be fine.
But if they’re wrong, our society is screwed.
We are taking part in an article of blind faith and putting our future in the hands of a combustible religion that denies what is at its roots even whilst pretending it has other things going on.
That is, I would argue the worst possible situation for a liberal society to be in.
So I know why tonight you will feel and rightly feel that it would be good to walk through this side of the house to say that Islam is perfectly compatible with Western liberalism and a and uh to take part in that pretense.
But I would argue that you should go through this side or down the middle because this whole thing is up for grabs.
It could all yet go very much worse than it’s already gone.
And the one thing that we can say with certainty is that if we avoid all the difficult parts of this argument and fall for the kumbaya version of Islam rather than looking at it ourselves, then the future of Islam, of Muslims, of British Muslims, European Muslims, and of those of us who are not Muslim is going to go very badly wrong indeed in the years ahead.
So, thank you.
Hello.
Um, for my dedication, can I just ask two questions, please? Yeah.
Um, so the first question I wanted to ask is to what extent do you distinguish between how a defi a term can be defined and the worst form of interpretation? So for example, if I say or and I and I admire the fact that I support a secular state, does that mean I should advocate the worst interpretation of secularism such as becoming a Soviet supporting Soviet Union? Uh, on the first of those things, no.
I think that actually what the other side by the way did this evening was actually to essentialize western culture.
We hear a lot about the essentializing of Islam, very little about the essentializing of our culture.
Immediately tal Ramadan and others go on to colonialism and so on.
It’s as if the history of countries like ours is only one of colonialism.
It’s as if the rest of what we’ve achieved is is nothing.
Second question I want to ask is also sorry I have to pause as if the Arab world or the Muslims didn’t literally colonize the out of a lot of the known world like like Muslims still actively and Arabs today still actively are engaged in both the slave trade and full-blown col colonization of society like full-blown unapologetic unadulterated colonization that’s still happening today.
Sorry I just had to interject that one point.
ent would you distinguish um as you rightly say British Muslims being very antihomosexual um um as being tribal following tribal cultures from South Asia or um because we know that that type of idea of killing homosexuality [clears throat] being anti-homosexual is not just restricted to Muslims in South Asia but also Hindus in South Asia Sikhs in South Asia and Christians in African countries what we’ve achieved is is nothing as for your second question.
Uh this is another way to evade it.
I don’t know any Jew or Christian who doesn’t deny chapters in Leviticus.
Okay.
But I find it very very common place as we had this evening that people ignore that the hadith the sayings of Muhammad are pretty strong on the matter of what you do about the gays.
So if we were to arrive at some kind of process of moving beyond that, you would have to start, wouldn’t you, by saying, well, the the the main the authoritative books and collections of Bkari Hadith of Muhammad are not gay liberation documents any more than their women’s liberation documents.
You would start by admitting that.
But we always go around the other way.
We always go, “No, it’s it’s a it’s a specific it’s a cultural thing.
it it’s it’s it’s not to do with religion.
It’s to do with a particular tribal thing.
Often then it’s uh as we hear quite often about this uh it’s that the the British and other colonial powers imported homophobia uh to the Muslim world which otherwise was just great with Zas gays and this also is not not a uh an accurate interpretation.
So I as I say I would urge that uh of Muslims in debating subjects like this admit what’s in the texts and get beyond them fast.
But I’m not a Muslim.
They have to do the job themselves.
I just hope they do.
I think that’s literally what it comes down to is that they have to do it themselves.
They Muslims will have to reform this situ for Muslims to get out of the pickle that they are in today.
And it’s, you know, for a lot of the that we get as Jews, I think a storm is coming to the Muslim side in the Western world.
It’s and it’s happening fast, my friends.
And I’m not excited about it.
By the way, I say this, if you guys will see, I have a I have a solid track record here of warning my Muslim followers.
You’ve got to reform your PR.
I’m telling you, a storm is coming and it’s not going to be in your benefit if you don’t take action against it.
You’ve got to fix this issue inside of your community.
Y’all a must.
Elon must.
Douglas said this probably, I don’t know, probably 10 years ago now.
This speech, it looks like it was recorded a long time ago, but he’s absolutely correct.
I’ll see you guys in the next one.
I love you long time.
Goodbye class.
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